Otmar Szafnauer: So this will be really quick. I read everything, and I investigated a little bit more too. I also talked to Andy Stevenson, and I read your chronology and everything that you gave me. I talked to BWT; I talked to Monisha; I talked to Toto; I talked to everyone.

And this is what I have come to the conclusion. One, it is not up to me; you need to go and see Vijay. I saw the pictures of you and Vijay at his house where you said this whole thing started, and I think there is a meal with Andy Stevenson in London the day before.

Andy showed me the pictures of you and Vijay and Pinky, blablabla, the whole thing.

Vijay has told me, I have talked to Vijay too, I cannot agree on anything; he's got to agree it. It's his business; he owns the place he's got to agree this. I will support you.

This is what I found out. Toto tells me that you guys did not bring BWT to Mercedes, and BWT first started talking to Mercedes. Andreas went directly to Toto.

Tara Ramos: We never said that we took them to Mercedes.

Otmar: I just heard that you say that you convinced that BWT come into Formula One.

Tara: This is correct.

Otmar: Toto says that BWT approached him directly.

Tara: Well, there is a difference. Right?

Otmar: Could be.

Tara: Between making someone aware to come to Formula One, and then use their own contacts. Because clearly, their Toro Rosso connection was through an agency that Red Bull works with.

Otmar: I was going to get to this. That was the first thing. So Toto said that those guys didn't bring them to me.

Tara: We never said that.

Otmar: BWT said that you are not representing them. I just tell you what BWT said. Cause I asked them. Have you been working with these guys? Is there a commission due? And they say absolutely not.

Tara: Of course not. They don't owe us anything.

Otmar: No, not that they owe you. They said you didn't influence them; you had nothing to do with them. That's what they said, I am telling you. I am telling you I investigated. I had discussions with Lutz about it; I went asked Monisha. Monisha was unsure if you had an agency agreement. She said I don't know. She was unsure if you guys had an agency agreement with Sauber.

Emanuel Moser: It is signed.

Otmar: She then came back and said, yes, we do have an agency agreement with somebody from Liechtenstein. So she said yes.

I read everything else that you have written in your chronology. Two things that struck me. One, BWT were also talking to Red Bull or, more importantly, to Toro Rosso. And you guys had nothing to do with that either. So you weren't really representing BWT; you weren't steering them in any direction.

Tara: Yes, into direction of Force India

Otmar: But you had no influence.

Tara: Of course.

Otmar: That is not what BWT are telling me. There is another thing that struck me; there is no communication between you and BWT. Nothing. It was just between us. One email to me where it was ladies and gentlemen and Otmar. That is the only email I ever received, which is recent.

Emanuel: I also have all the emails with BWT.

Tara: You want to have it?

Otmar: No, no, no. So just I get a picture. I didn't know any of this before you guys came to me.

Tara: Can I ask you a question? How can you not know?

Otmar: He (Steve) does his job.

Tara: You have read.

Otmar: I have read everything you gave me.

Tara: There is one sentence, Vijay agreed to everything. Came from Steve; you read it?

Otmar: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tara: So why would we then question whether Vijay knows all this stuff or not. Would you question it if Steve writes Vijay agreed to everything?

Otmar: People have to tell the truth. If he says that Vijay knows everything, then that means Vijay knows everything.

Tara: So it was the truth that you said yesterday that BWT approached you directly?

Otmar: They did. BWT approached me directly.

Tara: And you said it was way before we started talking.

Otmar: Exactly. That I don't know, I gotta check. But Toto called me as well before I knew any of what you guys are doing, any of it.

Tara: So I would say that you have an internal communication problem of what has been negotiated and what you say.

Otmar: Ya, ya, could very well be. However, so what I think you need to do and I'll support you on this.

Tara: So I think we should take your advice and have a judge make the decision to pay it.

Otmar: Listen, if that's the way you wanna go, then do it.

Tara: You wanted to go that route?

Otmar: No, I am giving you my advice.

Tara: That was the advice you gave us yesterday, one of them, one of two advices.

Otmar: If this is how it's gonna go, Tara, then you can fucking walk out of here, and that's what you're gonna do. That is not what I said, I'll tell you what I said, and I will tell you again. I said, you got two choices, convince Vijay or convince a judge. And that's still your choices today. Cause I can't make the fucking decision, do you understand me?

Tara: I understood you yesterday, and you don't need to yell at me, and the f word is not business talk.

Otmar: I will yell at you. I don't care, and I tell you why, cause you are lying.

Tara: Where am I lying?

Otmar: Because I said you need to convince Vijay or a judge. I did not say you need to convince a judge.

Tara: I said it was one option of the two, Vijay or a judge.

Otmar: Exactly. You can't convince me cause he told me: Otmar, you are not doing this, I am.

Tara: Fair enough from his point of view.

Otmar: Exactly. I am trying to help you.

Tara: I don't think so. I think you could be a little more supportive in saying: guys, you have all done an amazing job pulling this together.

Otmar: I am trying to help you. This is what I think you need to do. You need to go to Vijay and say: look, Vijay, our involvement in this was not zero.

Tara: Of course not, it was almost 100%!

Otmar: Exactly, show him the work you did. I didn't see the work you did. I did not see one email between you and BWT, not one.

Tara: Of course not, as this is between us and BWT. We cannot just disclose for the reason.

Otmar: I can be convinced 100%. And had this letter come to me, and I would have signed it, that would have been it cause I have signing authority. I have signing authority. We didn't do that, and now it is out of my hands. Now Vijay is saying: no, you don't have the authority to do this, I will do this. I tried to tell you that yesterday, and he said it too again today. So you gotta convince him. If you want my support, I am telling you what I think you need to do with Vijay. You need to go show him the work you did.

All the emails are between us. What I saw yesterday. You went for lunch with Andy Stevenson; I saw that, and Andy told me when I asked him. You went to Vijay's house, and you said there is this company BWT; if you are willing to paint your whole car pink, they'll probably sponsor you. That's what I read. Then he started talking to you and Steve. Vijay said deal with Steve. I saw all of it.

Then separate from me; it doesn't come to me. We have so many of these that it doesn't come to me.

Tara: You have so many companies that come and want to invest 10 plus million?

Otmar: Trust me, Tara, trust me, trust me, we have so many. Most of them get nowhere, which is why I don't waste my time at the beginning. Trust me. Even today, we were talking to three companies that want to invest over 200 million in the team, three today. Bob's doing two. I am doing one that want to invest over 200 million in the team. Most of these things talk is cheap. I don't get involved unless it's serious; he doesn't know. At one point, it got serious when Toto called me, and we had a discussion, and I said, Toto, is this real? He said it is real. Then he told me about the Mercedes thing. So I started to get involved, which was after you guys talked. But I didn't know any of that. But you need to go to Vijay and show him the work you did; I will support you.

Tara: Why can't you show him the stuff that you have.

Otmar: I will, no issue. But I need more than that. If you guys had stuff from BWT. You said it is confidential?

Tara: It is not confidential, but we would also not bring one of your emails to somebody else.

Otmar: I understand.

Tara: If you want to see, no problem.

Otmar: If you convince me, it is useless because Vijay will overrule me. That's all I am telling you. If you convince me, I will be supportive with Vijay.

Tara: I have a message from Vijay saying that if everything what you say you did, which you obviously read, and we did what we did, no problem.

Otmar: Is that what he said. Okay, that's good.

Tara: We came here with a sour feeling in our stomach. We came here to celebrate. And now we are sitting here, and we are talking about judges, we are talking about email content, why is that.

Otmar: Usually, what happens is that an agent would come to us. How many agent agreements do we have?

Curnow: 40.

Tara: So your commercial director sends us everything is okay. How come, please help me out.

Otmar: I am trying to piece it together. As I said, I only know a sliver.

Tara: Not once, and not on one day, that somebody had an accident, somebody was drunk.

Otmar: I am trying to piece it together. Usually, what happens is somebody comes to us and says, hey, I have got this sponsor, who I am directing, helping, representing.

Tara: That we did.

Otmar: Exactly. We sign an agency agreement.

Tara: He said it is signed.

Otmar: And I will bring the sponsor to you.

Tara: Your commercial director said it is all fine. The document was written by Ms. Leslie Ross, so I don't think that this comes out of nowhere. I don't think that Ms Ross just goes making this up.

Otmar: No, that is a standard document.

Tara: It is not, with our terms.

Otmar: Okay, Leslie changed two things.

Tara: She doesn't come out of the blue.

Otmar: So usually, if you don't get a signature, you don't disclose who the sponsor is. That's usually what happens.

Tara: Your commercial director said everything is okay, and we focused on getting the deal done rather than getting the signature. If we would have said that we don't disclose who it is, then there would be no pink car at this race. We wanted to push for it, but we would have run out of time.

Otmar: When you get that signature, we would not have this discussion.

Tara: We have this signature in writing. He (Steve) said it is done.

Emanuel Moser: It is the same.

Tara: In England, a handshake is already the deal. From our point of view, the thing is done and let's focus on this done. If we would have pushed and said we don't disclose, we would have had another day going down, and another day, and another and, and I tell you that you would have said the paint shop is done the cars need to be in Australia and they are silver. So what we did is, we have the confirmation, several confirmations, and now we need to focus to get the deal done. And that was the main goal. You would also weigh it up.

Otmar: You gotta weight it all up.

Tara: We wanted to get the deal done was more important to us, also towards BWT.

Otmar: All the work that you have done, you show it to me, and I will vouch to Vijay. But you gotta convince him.

Tara: He wrote it to me, but I don't even want to get to the point where I have to say I got it. Why would I need to go to Vijay and say that you wrote if everything that we claim we did.

We do not claim that we invented rocket science; we said that we brought the sponsor to Force India.

Otmar: Here is the difficulty that I have, but help me out here. When I go and ask the sponsor. I asked BWT did these guys bring this, no. But why would they say no to me?

Tara: I don't know. They told me today different. We have everything in writing.

Otmar: Show me that.

Tara: No problem. But now we are in the bitchy situation; why do we need to involve the sponsor. The sponsor should stay clear. They will think how professional is Force India and how could we trust these two guys. It lowers all of our profile. Just imagine this goes to court. Then instead of a win-win-win situation, it becomes. And this is not what we need to do.

We brought 12.5, 15 and 15 million to the team. Whatever it means, it is a benefit.

Otmar: I started working on this in the negotiation stage, is when I started on this. When we got to a point where oh, they want this, I don't think we can give it; they want that, I don't think we can give it. That's when I started with Andreas. I don't remember you guys being in on it at all.

Tara: I don't know why Mr. Curnow has not mentioned it to you that there are these people that brought them to us. There are at least three people that can testify that we brought them to you. We don't have anything to do with Mercedes, nothing to do with Toro Rosso, everything with Sauber and everything with Force India. We don't claim anything more.

Otmar: You weren't representing these guys, and you weren't representing us.

Tara: Yes, we were. Because Vijay wrote him (Steve) the email that you have read.

Otmar: You gotta go to Vijay and say you gotta pay these guys up.

Tara: Let's turn it around.

Otmar: I'll support you.

Tara: You write an email to all of us, including Vijay, saying we have been sitting together. The claim is genuine. Vijay, it is now up to you.

Otmar: I'll tell you what I'll do. I will write, I will tell him exactly what had happened. I say, look. Tara is saying he did this, this and this. We don't owe him zero, but we gotta give him what is fair. And I will write that to Vijay, and then you guys decide.

Tara: I don't think that this would be accurate. You would need to say we actually need to look into fulfil what our commercial director has promised them to do.

Otmar: I think what fair is what's due; it's not zero. From the little bit I saw, and I haven't seen everything, but from what I saw, you guys had some communication for sure.

Tara: No question. Why would somebody agree that 15% … I am happy to pay 15% if the deal comes together. Help me out; why would you say this to somebody?

Otmar: From his perspective, he can't agree the 15%.

Tara: But this is internal.

Otmar: But I am not sure he agreed the 15%.

Tara: Yes, he did, and you read it. I am happy to pay 15%.

Otmar: Yeah, but that is not for him to.

Tara: We did not make an agreement with your cleaning lady, unless Steve is cleaning the floors there.

Otmar: There is two things I do. One, I check the percentage in the first year and in the years after.

Tara: How come within two weeks, no-one has questioned the percentage?

Otmar: It never came to me. Two, I check the back page what categories there are to make sure we are not talking to somebody else who is in the same category.

Tara: So Ms. Ross just didn't come up out of the blue in writing in BWT into the contract.

Otmar: No, no, no, I am sure somebody had to tell her all that stuff. So we got to come up with a figure that is fair for the work you did, I have no issue, and I'll support with Vijay.

Tara: Since Vijay wrote to me, if everything is true, then no problem.

Otmar: He has taken it out of my hands, Tara. And yesterday I knew that, and that's why I gave you the two choices.

Tara: Why do you, in the first place, need to give us two options rather than saying you guys did it?

Otmar: Because I can't.

Tara: To us, it would have been two options; it would have been 85% of 12.5, 15 and 15 or 100% of nothing.

Otmar: Yeah, I know I get it. I think if BWT wouldn't have come here, you guys wouldn't have got nothing anyway.

Tara: Of course not.

Otmar: That's it; they would have been done.

Tara: Exactly, as we said, we convinced them to come to Formula One.

Otmar: That's not what they say. If you show me all the stuff, then I will support you with Vijay too.

Tara: I don't even want to go through Vijay.

Otmar: We have no choice.

Tara: Yes, we have a choice. It is an easy choice. For sure, it is not Mr. Curnow's choice. It is more your choice as being the Chief Operating Officer of this company saying that this is what happened and we agreed on it as Force India 15% is okay for us. We have never said it is a bit too much. Nobody said ever can we settle at 12% or settle at 13%.

Otmar: I can tell you we have zero agency agreements at 15, zero.

Tara: JMI has 20% with several teams.

Otmar: Not with us.

Tara: You know somebody with the title of the commercial director should then say, guys, we have zero agreements. Isn't that the task of a commercial director?

Otmar: Stephen?

Stephen Curnow: Sorry, I have to go to the grid.

Otmar: Send me the other stuff, and I will read through it. I will have a discussion with Vijay. I will write the email that you have requested too.

Tara: And we are waiting for you guys to come to us.

Otmar: This is what we think is fair.

Tara: As I said yesterday, please, Otmar, come with a signed proposal, and then we think about it.